🎾 Meet the Professionals: Karue Sell — From Coach to Creator to Turning Pro at 30
Ground Pass sits down with Karue Sell, one of the most fascinating figures in tennis right now. He’s worn every hat — from college star at UCLA to coaching on the pro tour, launching MyTennisHQ on YouTube, and now? He’s turning pro at 30.
In this episode, Karue opens up about:
💡 Growing up in Brazil dreaming of being Roger Federer
🎓 Why he chose the college tennis path
📹 How YouTube changed his career (and paid for it!)
💰 The real cost of chasing ATP points
🎾 Why he went all-in on turning pro again — this time, with a camera and a game plan
📈 His goal of breaking into Slam qualifying and reaching the Top 200
Whether you’re a tennis player, fan, coach, or content creator — there’s something in Karue’s story for you. A grounded, honest look at life on the fringes of pro tennis, with all its grind, glory, and growth.
👇 Watch, subscribe, and share your favorite moment from the episode!
📺 Subscribe to Ground Pass: youtube.com/@GroundPass
🔗 More from Karue:
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Karue-Sell
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/karuesell/
🎙️ Ground Pass: The podcast for anyone who’s curious about tennis — from first-timers to lifers.
#GroundPass #MeetTheProfessionals #KarueSell #MyTennisHQ #TennisYouTube #ATPChallengerTour #TennisPodcast #TennisPros #TennisLife #CollegeTennis #TurnedProAt30
TRANSCRIPT
Anastasia (00:00)
Hello, ground passers, and welcome back to another episode of Meet the Professionals, a series where we bring you the stories and insights from professionals working in and around tennis. I'm really excited about today, because I feel like as new YouTubers ourselves, Nick, we are going to learn a lot today. So I might have my notebook out. But I'm really excited about today's guest. He's someone who has
worn many hats in the world of tennis, college athlete, a coach on the Pro Tour, content creator, and now turning pro at 30 as well. We've got today, Caru Sell. Hello.
Karue (00:46)
Hello, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. Let's do this.
Anastasia (00:51)
Thank you for coming on the pod. And ⁓ really, when we started this series, you were one of the first people that I wanted to talk to because you are very unique in the sense that you are professional around tennis. So you're working in and around tennis, but you're actually also on the tour. So you're player as well. So it's a really great combo. But we will start this where we start everything. And it's when you were little.
when the first thought in your mind of I wanna be a, what was that?
Karue (01:26)
I I'm gonna say tennis player because I just don't, I started so early, you know, and I think as a kid, ⁓ you know, I probably, you know, was good as a really young kid and I think once you start, you know, winning little, even if they're little tournaments, right, in your city, but I think it just kind of makes you feel good. You know, you don't really remember that much, but. ⁓
But I probably showed a little bit of talent in that thing and it sort of becomes the thing you do. I always played a lot of sports. think there was a moment there that maybe I wanted to be a basketball player and then I realized that wasn't gonna happen. But in general, I've always been so into sports, but tennis has always been the one that drove me. sometimes when you're in sports for that long, it's hard to really see the...
anything else that you want to do, right? Think about the more normal life, jobs, things like that. So ⁓ I think for me it was always tennis.
Anastasia (02:31)
How early
did you start?
Karue (02:33)
It's probably like five. Wow, okay.
Anastasia (02:36)
right.
Karue (02:37)
Yeah, it's early, but it's like, think when people say, there's there's a, well, he's taking lessons every day at five. I'm like, no, I'm just hitting against the wall with my dad while he's playing. And then you do like, you know, a lesson here and there and you play a little tournament here and there. And I really only started playing every day when I was like 14. So like it wasn't like, I was always competing and playing tournaments, but there was always like, I was kind of like a multi-athlete person, like just playing soccer, playing basketball, playing a bunch of stuff. So, ⁓
But 10 is like, obviously, I think I picked up the earliest.
Anastasia (03:10)
Okay. Well, so if you started tennis so early, I mean that so you knew right away that you wanted to be a pro tennis player. Did you have and you know, going back at this point, you're in Brazil. You live in Brazil. Yeah. Yeah. So do you have a path? Do you know what you're doing? Do your parents put you into sort of like, you know, do they get you a coach right away? Like, how does that work?
Karue (03:37)
Well, I'm from a small town. by the time I was around like 11, 12, there wasn't really anybody to play with me there. So we started going to a little academy that was like about an hour away or an hour and a half away. And again, just twice a week, once a week, kind of depending on schedule. I think there was always, you know, like maybe you...
You have this dream of being a professional tennis player, like the reality is like when you're that young, you're just very.
You you're growing up with it's Roger, it's Rafa. It's like the golden age of tennis, basically. Right. So like you're just looking at those guys and you're just like, I want to be that guy. Yeah. But now you like you're so naive as a young player. It's like you're not going to be Roger. And that's a disappointment in itself. Right. Like once you're a little older, you're like, yeah, I'm not that good. I'm not that good. I'm not as good as Roger. It's just not going to happen. But you grow up with those guys. And so like they really, you know, make you want to be a pro tennis player, I think. But
You also don't know anything about the business of being a pro tennis player and how it works. So you're just progressing through the natural progression of things, right? Like I'm in the academy, I'm playing tournaments, I'm playing like state tournaments, and then you're playing like sort of more national level tournaments, and eventually you're playing ITFs, and I'm doing the whole tour there when you're a bit older. So you're just kind of going through that progression, that's sort of natural progression, and then only like later when you're like 16, 17, and then you start like, okay.
before I go to college. I always thought about the college path. A lot of players in Brazil don't, but I always thought about the college path. And you just eventually have to make that decision because tennis is not like an NBA draft. You can just play pros or not play pros. There's no turn pro. It's just like you just go play pro events. so I was always a pretty solid junior. I think I finished in
16th I finished number one in the country. I got to like top 30 in the world, but I wasn't like, you know winning junior slams I wasn't this like, you know, I was good but you know and your teenager always like oh my god This other guy here is so good. And and so it's a little tricky But I just went through like sort of the natural progression of like a junior tennis player
Anastasia (05:54)
Yeah, I mean, this is maybe a question someone would ask at the end of an episode. But now that we're here at this point, so you're 16, you're 15, you're 17. I really loved what you said where you're sort of like, well, then you realize you're not as good as Roger. You know, what is your advice to people who are coming up and maybe watching you and they're like, well, I want to be Carousel and I'm seven, you know, I'm 12, I'm 13.
How do I do that? And is there a point where you're sort of like, well, I'm really not as good as Kirou, but I'm going to try. You know, what is that process?
Karue (06:32)
I think, I mean, I think it's just like when you're young, you're so...
caught up in other people's timelines, right? Like, oh, this guy's already winning Challenger matches and he's like 17. You know, like was growing up, like, where the guys, maybe Bernard Tomich was a little, was a little older, but like, some guys that were like already kind of doing really well. And you're sort of, you know, you can get a little bit discouraged by other people's timelines. And I think the only thing I can say, if you're kind of like a junior, like a 13, 14, 15, just don't worry about that stuff yet. You know I mean? Just like play the juniors. Don't get ahead of yourself. Like there's people,
who are so outside of the curve, like the Fonsecas of the world are so outside of the curve, like you can't like, it's so hard to not compare yourself to them, but especially when you're young.
So just honestly, would tell everyone, like enjoy sort of like, you know, you're going to tournaments, it can be a little annoying, there's pressure, this and that. We want to hide from all that, but like in reality, you're just going to have to go through it. And then, you know, as you sort of become like a young adult, you're playing college, maybe you're playing, you're like deciding, do I go play pros? Do I even have the talent or the money to do this? It's like, to me, it's like, you want to look at it as, you know, like...
What are you gonna do with your life? Right? Like there's all these kinds of things. You're young, you can kind of send it. Send it, have a good time. You know, I know it seems like a silly thing to say, but sometimes I think we get so caught up in just like, what's the perfect process to do this whole thing that you're like, you're not figuring out your own thing, your own timeline, how you respond well to the pressure, how you deal with all the things that come as being like a, you know, a professional tennis player. And that...
The reality is like the vast majority of us is not going to make it by the standards that we had in our head. Like we didn't like I didn't really make it by the standard. I thought like when I was 15, 16. Right. But now, like at my age, I just sort of like I'm just trying my best. Like there's obviously times where I don't. But like I'm just trying to enjoy the sort of like final ride that I have. Right. Because I think often I didn't really enjoy the process. You just sort of like you're just the next thing, the next thing, the next thing. So it
But be really conscious of your own timeline and trust that like your time is your time you can't really Like compare it to the other people
Anastasia (08:55)
Right,
right. Well, I guess going back to your kind of journey a little bit. So you're young, you think about college, you think, OK, I'm going to go to college. ⁓ Did you think that was going to be a viable way to go pro and continue playing, like going to college and then turning pro?
Karue (09:18)
Yeah, I mean, you know, I obviously ended up at UCLA. So, you know, we had a very strong team, but to me it was like right as I was kind of ending juniors, I played some pros and I was so burned out already. Like I was just I was in the same academy for a long time. just knew something. Yeah. But I just needed something different because I was in the same place for like eight years training. And I was just like, I started doing like the pro tour thing at the time was still like 10 K's and 15 K's. And you're like,
Anastasia (09:32)
already.
Karue (09:48)
I don't want to do this. Like I'm not ready for this. I knew like I had a good feeling that it's like if I keep doing this, I'm done within like two years and that's it. And so what was the point of doing all the all the playing before? So to me, it was like, let's go to college. You can leave at 21, 22. And nowadays, like, what's that? Right. Like you're a baby on tour. Used to be maybe, you know, people are peeking at that age, but that doesn't exist anymore. to me, it was a very viable option. ⁓
But going into college, to be honest, I wasn't really thinking about pros anymore. like for the first, like I'm gonna do my four years and then after the four years I'll decide it. I just wanna really enjoy this sort of four years that I'm gonna have here. And I really don't want, I didn't play any pros in the summer. I didn't do anything. I just enjoyed being like a college person slash athlete. Yeah. I really enjoyed like the team aspect of things.
Anastasia (10:40)
Okay, okay, so you literally
Okay, okay.
Karue (10:47)
I pushed it aside. I was like, you know, if I'm playing really good tennis at the end of the four years, I'll give it a go. But if not, like, you know, we'll try something else because I needed to figure out like, what's outside of this? Like what what what what do you know? Like, yes, I can still work with tennis because only when I moved to America, I was like, oh, working in tennis here. Good career. You can make a living. Like there's all sorts of opportunities. There's college centers. There's this, this and that. Right.
So you started sort of experiencing like life, you know, just a little bit outside of the bubble of tennis that you were an entire life. And so I needed that. I needed to just sort of just be a normal person. And obviously the team was awesome and being as a college, you know, just a college athlete is really fun. ⁓ that was all s-
sorts of challenges into moving to America and dealing with academia and all that stuff that you're just not prepared for. So I just needed to focus on that and everything else. I had to take a little bit of a pause.
Anastasia (11:49)
Yeah, yeah. So how do you then, because you go to college, then you start coaching. How do you make that transition? I mean, you've talked about it already, where you kind of saw that there was other jobs in tennis other than playing tennis, which I kind of love because I think, you know, people will reach out to us about careers in tennis, it's not just being a player.
How do you then decide, coaching, I could do that?
Karue (12:20)
Yeah, I mean, I think to be honest, you know, I, I started, I operate a lot on like kind of gut feeling, if I'm being totally honest. Um, you know, I don't plan too far ahead that way. So when I finished college to me, was like, I was 2016, you know, in my head, I was playing good ball. had a really good final season and I was playing well, but I was like, how am going to afford this?
Like, right, how am I gonna go play pros at this point? You my parents in Brazil, like, it's fine, but like, you know, I just, I'm just like, there's no way I can do this. And I so enjoyed college tennis. I was like, maybe I'll give the college tennis thing a go. You know, so I was a coach at Pepperdine for a year, volunteer coach, just to get your foot on the door, get the experience. You know, I started teaching him some lessons just to make some money. And so for that year, I was just...
Just kind of floating really, just trying to figure it out. I mean, I think there's, you know, like you're 21 or 22, like you're, you know, nothing really. So I just wanted to get that experience. did a year at Pepperdine and, you know, I was training, was playing like, I'd play a couple of futures here and there. I was hitting with the guys a lot. So was still like really, you know, competing and playing a lot. But, um, at the end of that season, I was just kind of like, don't think the college thing is for me. are those.
aspect of it, I was like, that's not really what I want to do. And I was like, let's give it a go on the Provo tour just because I was like...
I won't have that shot again, kind of in my head at that time. So I just went and did it. ended up like, think I won like literally my first future back. Like I placed men's open and played a future and won it. And I was like, okay, I guess I have to do this, right? And yeah, so I did, you know, then I went back on tour and just kind of did it for a year or so, but very difficult, like with financials, all the finances and all that stuff. you know, I didn't last very long.
Nick (14:13)
So obviously going back to the point of like you, you've obviously figured this out ⁓ with like, okay, struggling with it. So you obviously then went, okay, coaching is a good way to get some income. guess I've got a couple of questions off the back of that. Is that pretty common for players that kind of challenge a level future level to be coaches on the side? And I guess off the back of that, and pretty much to anyone listening, whether they're kind of a want to be a pro player or not, if they're thinking about being a coach, what would you advise them to think about?
Karue (14:44)
question. mean, I think I think number one, I don't know if the players are like being like coaches and players sort of as as they go that they stop. I think most people just kind of, you know, dive into it and however financially they can sustain themselves out there. They figure it out. There's I think in the US is a little bit more profitable to be a coach than anywhere else. So like if you were American coaching here, I think you're going to have a little bit more.
makes a little bit more sense versus maybe anywhere else, right? So ⁓ I think that's when you're a foreigner and you start sort of like, you know, earning what you earn, can earn here as a coach, you're like, whoa, this is a really good career. think everywhere else is really not that way. Right. So and if you want to become a coach, mean, there are so many that you've got to sort of like look into like a personality and see like what what's your best
you know, attribute, you know, because I think like a college coach, for example, it's it's not you're not really just like, know, like
technique coach or like a you have to be like a great manager of people of like there's a lot more that goes into it right so there's all tennis careers that are gonna fit different personalities I think and so like if you're if you're looking to go into tennis you know there I know guys that like went to college coaching I was like that's it for them that's the perfect job you know they're like they they love it they want to really help these kids grow and all that stuff it's just they just kind of have that personality
And to me, I thought college, you don't really control your time as much. For me, that's a very valuable thing. I don't need to be rich, but I need to own my own time. And that's something that's very important to me.
To me that didn't work. so was just, but you have to experiment. If you're trying things out, like I think there's an experimentation process that is very important. At least in my opinion, because I did try everything. know, I was a hitting partner. was like, I was kind of just, I was just saying yes to a lot of stuff early on. I was just like, yeah, sure. You want me to be a hitting partner and for Fed Cup, I'll go. I wasn't making that much money or anything. I was just kind of doing stuff and then seeing what like kind of felt fun kind of felt like a potentially good career.
Anastasia (16:57)
Right, right. So I mean, you we've talked about how you started in tennis, you went into coaching and stuff, but anyone listening to this that knows you, they know you because of YouTube. Like that's how, I mean, that's how you first came on my feed. Before I even knew you played tennis, I stumbled on the My Tennis HQ channel and I was like, ⁓ interesting.
because it was more sort of instructional. how did you go from, okay, college coaching is not for me, that's what I'm doing, you're trying every, you know, all these things. Did you just say, ⁓ let's just try YouTube?
Karue (17:39)
Yeah, kinda. So basically, at the late 2019, a buddy and I who played a Pepperdine, his name is Guilherme Hadlich, Brazilian guy. We sort of talked, we were both like, kind of had, I feel like, entrepreneurial minds and we were like, oh, let's start, he had gotten very good at like creating websites that work with SEO, so we started MyTennisHQ.com actually, that was the first thing.
That was basically, you know, writing articles, you know, just using the SEO. We wanted to just, to be honest, make some passive income. That was kind of like the goal. I mean, there's no other like real reason. So I was like, oh, let's try this. We're both working. We're both have jobs so we can start this. there's not a lot of, you don't have to put a lot of money into it. So let's do it. late in 2019, I got the gig with Naomi. Just a liar.
as a hitting partner and all that stuff. you know, I already was like, I think the one thing I, during this time where I was like kind of experimenting and coaching, I learned a lot about photography, videography. It's just like, I'm geeky about those things. So YouTube just, you're learning a lot of stuff, right? So my buddy was like, you know, he was like, why don't we start YouTube? Like, you know, you're already doing kind of social media anyway. Start doing YouTube, see what happens. Maybe it gets more traffic to the, to the...
the website so I just kind of started like honestly I just started posting some stuff like trying to see how could I get my foot in the door because you know there's a lot of content out there so how can you separate yourself from it obviously me working with Naomi helps a little bit you know to post some like interesting videos there
Anastasia (19:18)
And when you say Naomi, you were Naomi Osaka talking about it. Okay. For people who don't know you were like, were you a coach, a hitting partner? What were you doing?
Karue (19:22)
Yeah.
was a
hitting partner. Yeah. So in 2019, I started working with her as a hitting partner. She moved to LA and we started working here. We stayed together like about a year and a half, like on and off. was COVID here. We ended up like winning a couple grand slams. So we actually had a really successful like time me, her, Wim, who's coaching Egan now. Yeah. And so
Yeah, so I started, you know, I was kind of doing that. We're trying to figure out, like, you how can people find the channel and all this stuff was doing like little racket reviews, things like that. And it started kind of growing. And to me, was like, like neither one of us like needed like the money from the social media. We were just like, let's just keep building it. And eventually, like, we'll get to a place where like maybe whatever we'll do something else to try to profit out of that. But I enjoyed the process. I liked making the videos.
I thought it was fun and I just kind of kept doing it. That wasn't anything, you know, perfect. I was just like, as long as I keep putting content out, hopefully people find me. And he just slowly but surely grew and we sort of saw the path and he kind of kept growing and now we're here.
Anastasia (20:36)
Now you're here. ⁓ I mean, it's kind of incredible what you've built, just a super side tangent. You were at Indian Wells when I was there. And it's just like you showed up, you posted you were there and it's like people just flocked and met you and stuff. I was like, he's like the most famous person here. It was pretty.
Karue (21:01)
That is really my audience. Any tennis tournament is, you know, the hardcore tennis people there. They will be my audience. When I was traveling with Mark, was just funny. I'd be like in New Zealand and I'd get like an email, a random email. Hey, I know you're in New Zealand. Can you teach me a lesson? I'm like, that's wild. So you don't really know the reach you have, you know, until like maybe you're kind of out there a while. But, you know, it was my tennis issue for a long time. It was not even my name. And we had, I think, very strong brand there. Like I enjoy doing
the coaching stuff that I did online, because I always had this sort of, how can you even coach tennis online, right? Like how can you? Right. Like I can't replace a coach. I can't replace someone that comes in and is going to teach a technique if you're learning. But if you already know how to play, you want to learn a little bit more. That was always like my sort of angle. You want to learn a little bit more, you know, like maybe let's, let's.
cut some of the noise that's online because there's so much noise there, like a hundred million different ways of hitting a forehand or hitting a backhand and things that may be. I was looking at it I was like, I never heard any of this stuff. And I've been around some like really good coaches and, and either I don't know anything or they're trying to reinvent the wheel here. And I just wanted to like, try to simplify things for people and hopefully, you know.
Well, think once you understand a little bit more about the game, it's easier to play the game. So that was always my angle. I think people responded well to that. And yeah, the Indian Wells thing or any place like that, it's interesting. I'm still not used to that. whenever it happens, I'm like, it's awesome. Obviously, you're getting people to hopefully play more tennis and enjoy the game a little bit more.
Nick (22:47)
I've been that person who's turned to YouTube for coaching advice. And we know I play a little bit. Not as often as I would like, but sometimes I'm like, I am playing horribly right now. Let's try and fix my forehand. Oh, look, there's a career, career sells got a video up. Let's try and watch that. And then you realize you can't actually do it, you have got to go into do a bit of practice with it. But yeah, that's
I think it's a really, really valuable resource, but you're right, it doesn't quite replace the impact a coach can have directly.
Karue (23:21)
Yeah, or just time, right? Like I think a lot of people just, you know, you want a quick fix to something and there's a lot of people teaching quick fixes. I'm like, look, I've been doing this for 25 years. Like, how can I promise you that you're not going to double fault anymore if I still double fault? That's that to me, that's a crazy statement. Yeah. Like when I see things like that, it's like, if you do this, you're never going to double fault again. I'm like, how? like we're all still double fault. Top pro still double fault. Right. So there's there's a lot of that online that that is
It's just, it's the game. there's no hate. It's just the way it is. don't personally operate like that that much, but I always, I've always seen, you know, I love golf and to me, you know, like I've always gone to YouTube for some tips and stuff like that, right? Like you were like, I'm chipping bad or I'm this bad. And you go and there's a lot of content there and it's very difficult to know what to trust, to know, you know.
where, you know, what's a good resource here? And so, I understand the experience from the tennis fan, because I do the same for golf. So, you know, if I'm trying to create content, I'm gonna then try to create content that, to me, would be the content that I would like to find in golf. I just find it, I try to give you that in tennis in a weird way.
Nick (24:39)
Karoo,
I've got to be honest, I feel a little bit called out because you've just said, you're looking for a quick fix. Like, yes, yes. ⁓
Karue (24:46)
It is, but it is. ⁓ Trust me, I tried quick fixes in golf as well, but like you can't really replace time. But if you watch one of my videos and you try to do maybe something that literally clicks and it's like, okay, this makes sense. And you just, instead of watching more stuff, you just kind of do that for a while. You know what I mean? It's like, I watched this video. I'm going to stick with this for a couple months here and let's see where I get.
then maybe you get somewhere. The problem is you do something with the video, then a week later you find another video, and then you find another thing, and it's just that, then you're just in a never-ending cycle of not getting better.
Anastasia (25:27)
Right, right. So you, know, my 10HQ doing lessons, videos and stuff on YouTube, it's growing, it's pretty popular. When do you then pivot to turning pro at 30? Why? First of all, why make the change and what precipitated it?
Nick (25:49)
Especially if you've already tried doing it once before.
Karue (25:52)
Yeah. Honestly, so 2023, I was traveling with Marcos Guirón as his coach, like on and off. were splitting weeks with another guy and I on the off weeks, ended up playing a few like UTR events here in Newport Beach, like the PTT, which is a great tour. Like you've got a lot of matches in, you know, I end up like
You know, I won like two in a row and then I won a couple men's opens. All of a sudden I'm like, you know, I won like 20 matches in a row or something. And I'm like, Oh, this is kind of fun again. And I'm still just kind of like, you know, coaching a little bit. My tennis HQ just whatever. And at the time I was like, Oh, maybe, you know,
Let's go try to get a point, literally just for content. I wasn't like really trying to play pros. I was like, oh, let's see if like old man Karoo can go get a point, right? Like that I think that's good content. It's fun. Like I need to keep things fresh, right? And I ended up going and I had to play in Tunisia. I got a couple of points there.
Nick (26:52)
Right.
Karue (26:53)
Yeah,
ranking points like ATP points. because you know, there's like a lot of, know, there's a lot of kids doing this, like, you know, Felix, obviously, he's like a big YouTuber. He's trying to get his point. There's a lot of that, like Jules Maria was doing it. There's there's been like that for the world. And so I was like, yeah, let's try to get a point, right? Like, let's see if I can do it. So I end up like doing it in Indonesia, a couple points. And then that was sort of like late 2023, probably September or something.
And then I was like, Oh, let's go play another tournament. Let's see what happens. You know, just, just for, again, not necessarily fully like committed to playing pros, but just let's go play a couple more tournaments, have some fun. And on my second term and I ended up winning it. So I ended up winning a 15 K, uh, in Mexico. And, uh, you know, that puts your RD, you know, probably like eight, 800, 50, whatever it is. And at that point it sort of clicks.
you know, think timing of everything was, was, okay because at that point the channel, I don't know if I think we're at a hundred thousand, probably we're a hundred thousand already. So we're starting to get like a more brand deals. Like, you know, there's, I can see like,
Okay, financially, I could probably pull this off. Like, because the problem is if you're playing on tour, then you can't really teach and your income, you know, like, I'm married. I'm not like just a single guy living like, you know, I got bills, got two dogs, a wife, like things, you know, things are moving. So, but like, I think the timing of it was very, very right. It was like, I got through it, so I was going to be able to play some more main draws already because I won the tournament anyways, I don't have to grind qualities.
It's the end of the year. So like, okay, it's coming. I can actually do some extra proper preseason again and all that stuff. The channel is big enough that I think I'll be able to support myself. And I was 30. was literally in November of 2023. That's when I turned.
30. So I was like, and he just came to me like turning for a 30. Let's see what happens. And it just sort of, you know, like I said, like I work a lot on on gut feeling on timing and moment. And it's something that for most of my life, I maybe didn't trust as much or didn't understand it. And nowadays, I trusted I just kind of trust my gut a little bit more. My former business partner, he used to say I just kind of walk through.
different doors that open in life. I like, I'll go here for a little bit and I'll go here for a little bit. And in a way I do, but like I also like, make those decisions to say yes or no very fast. Like when Naomi like hired me, like, let's do it. I was like, sure, let's do it. This is probably going to be fun. And I do it. And then you learn something from that. Maybe it doesn't work out the way you expect. You do something else. So ⁓ it was just the right timing of everything. It just made sense. And I sent it.
Anastasia (29:49)
Yeah,
yeah. It's been really great watching it, even just as I work in film and television production. So I come from the entertainment side of things and even just watching it as a TV show, you know, it's kind of like turning prayer or so. Does he make it? Does he not make it? You know, there was this kind of it's a story. And that's one thing I loved about it. But as I was watching you do this thing.
You have a YouTube channel, you're turning 30. And I think the lovely thing that I love that you talk about in the series is you talk through the processes of like, just like you said, the channel is big enough to support you so that you could go on tour. You talked about the finances, about all that stuff. How do you think that has impacted? Like are other players seeing you do this and think, that is...
Because earlier on in this conversation, you talked about how, you know, it's expensive to go on tour and do all of that. Are other players looking at you and thinking, ⁓ is that a way I can finance my career a bit? Like, do you see that happening?
Karue (31:05)
Yeah, so like there's definitely been, you know, I think a new wave of players trying to do this. You know, you guys got, you have like the change over podcast, which is a couple of doubles guys, you guys roll to pro and there's a few, there's a few content creators that have come out of this and they've asked me questions like, you know, like obviously trying to get my input on what to do and why not. What I typically tell them while I,
It's obviously a great, great thing to be able to hopefully share your story and maybe finance your career through that. It took us like a long time to do it and a lot of work to be able to actually get any kind of money that made sense. Right. And so I tell them, like, look, if you don't love this sort of like process of, of making the videos or making a podcast, whatever it is.
and you're concerned about the money, about selling merch and things like that, like you're going to have like a really quick like reality check. Like that's not going to work. Right now.
You know, I've recently had more like, you know, players being like, they're turning pro 30 guy, like, you know, and they want to be on the channel or they want to like, you know, they've been actually very positive about like the whole thing. They're pumped at like, I'm sharing sort of that side ⁓ of tennis. And I do think like even like the top guys are starting to like, maybe there's someone following them around the camera. So they improve their social media content and stuff like that. ⁓
But again, what I tell them is it is a lot of work and I don't know how I manage it at this point. think the only way I'm able to manage it is because I was already kind big enough in the space to then play, you know what I mean? And it sort of matches. To build it from the ground up might be a little bit trickier. But I think there is, everyone has their own sort of...
story within that, we said, like in TV and all that, like we all have our own stories, our own ways of telling the story. And tennis, you know, a match is a very basic three act, like, you know, show, right? Like two players are playing who is going to win. There's the outcome. It's very simple thing, right? So, so I tell them like, look, it's, you know, start small, but just keep
making the content that's the main thing it's like if you don't have consistency you don't grow and and it's a very hard thing to do and
It's also very demanding mentally. you're dealing with, you know, the algorithm and those things and you can get stressed out about that. Like, my videos are not doing that well and all that. So there's an aspect to it that I, be honest, like, I don't know if I was playing top 100 tennis, if I would still be able to have the same level of output. Like, I don't know if I'd be able to put four or five videos a month. I'd probably have to like bring it down a little bit. And so, but I do think that the more and more players are starting to notice that they can take
take their own story and share it. It's just like, whatever, just be authentic about it. I think the problem is when the top players do it, it's this production company and they're filming and they're editing and their narrative is going, but it's just kind of boring. And to me, it doesn't do much. ⁓ But there's obviously a lot of creators doing their own thing and they're...
able to ⁓ get a following even though maybe they aren't the greatest tennis players, but they're able to share a good story.
Nick (34:35)
I think this is something that we're showing with you, right? We at Grand Pass absolutely love the stories of the people who are coming up that you would go and see on a Grand Pass at Grand Slam or go to watch at Challenger. That's a way of getting people to show up and know the stories before that. At start, we used all this because a couple of friends of yours didn't know who Matteo Berettini was.
So I think that's a really cool way of getting that promotion out there for the sport and getting that story out there. And we love stories and it makes this really relatable and entertaining. But I wanted to kind of ask about, we talk about sort of the finances and people looking to YouTube maybe to not only boost their profile, but boost their finances. I want to kind of use this opportunity to kind of put a little bit of an insight into this. You've put out a very good video.
towards the end of 2024, which was really going to give us an insight of like, oh, you're barely breaking even if you were trying to do the challenge at all without, your futures end to the challenge at all without the channel. And that kind of got me curious because this is something I've been thinking about in terms of the bigger picture. How many tournaments do you or like a general player maybe who maybe doesn't have a YouTube channel need to play a year to not only make some kind of living, but...
maintain a ranking and these are the guys outside the top 100.
Karue (36:06)
Yeah. mean, the reality is like anyone who's not like, you know, a top 10 player needs to play minimum 25 tournaments a year, but like realistically probably 30 to 32 because 18 or 19 of the best results count. So you have to like, you have to send it. So the problem is like the question you asked is like, how many tournaments do they have to play to be financially in a good place? But the reality is the more tournaments you play, the more you spend.
Right? So like there's, there's just that it's a never ending cycle. So you have to win to get more points. I think not to get more money. So nowadays, if you're top 200, like you're okay, because you're going to play the slams, the challengers like are paying for hotel. ⁓ there's a little bit more money, ⁓ going around. So I actually think, you know, the finances of everything has, has improved a little bit. but in general, ⁓ if you're just kind of playing futures,
for a long time you're gonna struggle. Like it's gonna be very hard to stay out there. And again, sometimes, look, in my case, it's like to me, I was already 30, again, like I said earlier, have normal people bills nowadays, right? And you guys know life has gotten very expensive in the last five years. And so those are certain things that I couldn't, I can't get away.
Nick (37:25)
Cheers.
Karue (37:32)
from like paying those bills. Whereas someone that is young is coming out of college, they're living off a suitcase, they don't have rent, they don't have like anything sometimes and they're just going. So maybe that alleviates some of that pressure. But in general, you're going to have to play a lot of events because you're going to lose a lot of first round, second rounds and those points won't count at all. So you need to keep hunting for points. Like when you're starting, you're not hunting for money at all. Like you're not thinking about money. Like you are because you're losing it, but you are, but you're
really thinking about points to get to a place where it's like, now I can play only challengers and hopefully slam qualities and things like that.
Nick (38:09)
I've got to ask, have you met Billy Harris? Because I think he came to write a movie in the UK because it was reported on the mainstream UK media that he was basically living out of a van traveling.
Karue (38:19)
Yeah, I never met him. I never met him like in person, but I've seen the story and I thought it was awesome. And there's been like in Europe is a little bit easier to do that. right mobility is like you can't have a van in the US and you go from like Tulsa to like Florida like that. There's just like an impossible thing. It's too big of a country. But like in Europe, you can you can kind of do that a little bit more. You can travel by train a little bit more. Like it's just things are slightly cheaper there. ⁓ But I love his story and I hope he like continues.
to like you know hopefully get to the top hundred.
Anastasia (38:52)
Yeah, yeah. So we've talked about the past, talked about the present, now looking forward to the future. First of all, if anyone doesn't know your story and where you're at now, you can stop listening here and go catch up on Karoo's YouTube channel, because I really do enjoy it. It really is like a story. And we're in season two. Season one was a hit. Like season one.
Karue (39:17)
A lot of ups in season one. Yeah. It's been tough.
Anastasia (39:21)
Season two has been emotional.
Karue (39:23)
Yeah, it's been a little more emotional. It's been a little more emotional, but it's good story. You that was always something in my head. I was like, if I do good or if I do bad, it's an arc. like, you know, I keep trying to tell myself, you know, like we've had some ups, we're having some downs and hopefully it goes back to, sorry, I cut you off, but yeah.
Anastasia (39:40)
No, no, no, no, it's great. It's kind of. Yeah, it's interesting how it's like literally a television show. But so catching everyone up who's just listening now, we're in season two. You are currently injured, but you're healing. You're coming back for so what is your status right now?
Karue (39:44)
Acting on track.
Yeah, currently a little injured. I'm hoping by mid-May ⁓ I'm competing. I signed up for a challenger in Colombia, so I think I'm going to do that. I'm likely going to be at the French Open during the Qualis week, trying to do some content there because I won't be able to play it ranking-wise. But, you know, I'm working with Technifibers, so hopefully I can get a,
few hits there with some players and, and, and, know, create some content there in Paris. So that's, that's kind of like short term. And then after that, it's like going back on tour, just going back to.
you know, no glamour, just go out there and play and hopefully try to like, you know, build back my ranking. Like I haven't really fallen yet because I didn't have that much to defend in the last few months, but there's going to be at some point a moment there where I have to defend a little bit more and I'm, you know, I want to stay hopeful. My goal is to get to top 200. So yeah, I just got to go back out there and do my best once I'm healed.
Anastasia (40:59)
So the goal is 200. Is the goal also to play qualities in a Grand Slam?
Karue (41:05)
Yeah, that's the main goal. To me, that's kind of like the main goal. It might have put maybe a little bit too much pressure on myself for that. At the end of the year, I was like 258. If I had one more good result, would have made it, I think. It's usually, I think the number is about 230. If you can be 230, 225, you're gonna be in. Okay.
Anastasia (41:20)
What's the cutoff?
Karue (41:30)
And so I needed like one more result, like had some visa things like I couldn't end up like going to like the last two tournaments I was going to play that didn't work. And going into this year, I'm like, okay, I'm already like two, whatever 75 like that's like, you know, I got to
good path for the French, right? There was like four months there of just playing tournaments, not really losing that many points. And I was really excited to give that a chance. And I just, unfortunately, a couple bad tournaments in the beginning of the year, had an opportunity, then finally made a quarter, had an opportunity to play Rio, which was great, but also lost first round, so you don't get any points.
And then all of sudden, like, we're already kind of like in March, and I unfortunately had first a shoulder thing that took me like three weeks to get better. And then as soon as I was back, I pulled the calf. And then so like I'm basically two months out. So I think there was like a little bit of like too much pressure on myself to get to the French Open ⁓ that I kind of put on myself.
Maybe I didn't enjoy playing the process as much as I had been. So yeah, I'm just trying to go back to that mindset. The slam thing is gonna happen if I'm playing good. So instead of worrying about that, just go back into playing good ball week in and week out. So that's kind of been the tricky part.
Anastasia (42:53)
Yeah, maybe Carlos Alcaraz is onto something. Have you seen the doc yet?
Karue (42:58)
I haven't seen yet. I haven't seen you too good.
Anastasia (43:00)
It's really good, I really enjoyed it, but literally throughout the whole thing, he's like, if I'm happy, I'm playing well. If I'm not happy, I don't play well.
Karue (43:08)
But that's really, I think for certain players, think like by no means I want to compare myself to Carlos, but I want to say just like he can tell whenever he's happy and smile, he plays good and I feel the same. Like I don't work as well as just like a robot, like super locked in. need to, because in the court, I'm like on the court, I'm sort of a creative player. like to...
to maybe not be so structured, but like allow myself to like hit my shots and shop making and all that stuff. And sometimes when you're on tour, it's easy to lose that because you maybe don't play so good for a couple of weeks and then you start like overthinking certain things and you get in some bad bad habits. So. ⁓
That's really something I'm looking to do to hopefully enjoy this ride a little longer, because I don't know for how long I'm going to do this. So it's one of those things. Once I go back into playing, I want to almost tell myself this is the last time I'm going to be in this tournament or that tournament, and just allow myself to enjoy this. I'm not saying it will, but that probably will allow me to be a bit more present with the whole thing.
Anastasia (44:13)
Yeah, yeah. You know, we like this show to be sort of something someone can listen to and maybe take some advice. I'll ask you because I think specifically you maybe could be talking to ⁓ a young player who's maybe trying to turn pro. think what we've what I've learned anyway from just, you know, hearing stories and things is that people get really bogged down by how much it costs like
It's so expensive if you're not coming from a well off family who can just pay for everything. You're losing money everywhere you go, but people still want to be able to try out to be a pro tennis player. What advice would you have maybe for someone who's stuck maybe a little bit in that sort of, do I give up and go get a job in banking or you know, is there something
else that I can do? Because I think I love the idea that you said, you know, you just walk through open doors, but is that maybe an advice you would give someone who's maybe just trying to hang on?
Karue (45:23)
I mean, it really depends, I think, to me, like what age they're at and level, right? So I've always been a very like realistic guy to a fault. And I wish I had a little more irrational confidence and just like, you know, believed a little bit more. That's what my mom always said. ⁓ But I also do believe that like, you you can...
I do like UTR nowadays as a sort of like a gauge of level, right? Like it's not really a gauge of like ranking, because ranking can be gamified. You're playing a lot of tournaments versus you're not playing a lot of tournaments, like whatever it is, right? But UTR, you can kind of see a level. So if you're 18 and you're not, to me, if you're not winning like challenger matches or even like winning futures, like I think college is like your number one priority. Go there, get that done. At least you have a little bit of a, hopefully a...
a a plan B in case nothing works out. But like if you're sort of like a young professional already and you're playing, you know, mostly on the ITF tour, maybe for years at that point, it is...
It is hard, like it's very difficult to see someone make an insane level jump from ITF, you know, like let's say you're eight, 900 your entire career here for three, four years, like it's gonna be pretty difficult for all of a sudden that guy to get to 300. So there are other opportunities nowadays, right? You can play PTT events, UTR events, know, like men's opens to make some extra income. Obviously you can coach a little bit, but...
You know, I think it's gonna, don't wanna sound like I'm killing anyone's dreams, but I'm like, you have to be really realistic about like.
You know where you at here and if you will absolutely love it, you love this journey, right? Like you like you don't care like I'm spending them on I'm in my 20s. I'm gonna send it Somehow I'm gonna figure it out. Absolutely send it have a good time with it's your own journey to your own story like, know, but eventually you can tell your kids that like look I did this when I was like in my 20s, right? I think there's a there's a There's an aspect into playing pros that is just like dive in and see what happens But like obviously if you financially like you're in a hole
it's it to me there's a there's a point that I don't think is like really worth it I think then you can like try to be within the sport in different areas in different ways like I've seen guys like you know that were good there were four or five hundred in the world become hitting partners and all of a they're traveling around around the world and they become like you know WTA coaches or you know like things like that you're like other you can sort of live this experience maybe through a different lens
Like I feel like I've had the experience of like a top probe because I travel in Naomi I travel with Marcos I hate in some of the biggest courts in the world. I've had a good time never played them those events unfortunately yet, but I've had a lot of that experience and in I think one thing people don't understand is that once you become a pro tennis player or even took a junior chance But if you if you know what it's like to play a professional tennis tournament Even at the top the experience is very similar
It's sort of still the same pressures, the same issues that you might have. Obviously, you're making more money, but all the other stuff that's sort of waiting around in the term and it rained and this and it's all the same. It doesn't really change much.
it improves in terms of like how much money you make, but you also have to spend more money when you're at the top there. Like if you're making a million bucks a year, but like, you know, you're getting taxed and then you're having to pay a coach, you're having to pay a fee, like it kind of drains you the same way. So the experience like kind of stays the same. So it's up to you to understand it's like, I like this experience and I'll keep getting through it. And people have different motivators, right? Like people motivated just by like hard work and doing it. Some people are really motivated by money. Some people are
motivated by different things. ⁓ you know, understand what's your motivator here and if it makes sense to continue to go. Like I'm not motivated really by money anymore in playing tennis, right? Like I, that's not, I don't think about it at all. ⁓ To me, it's just like, can I earn the respect of my peers? You know, like I'm not just the YouTuber. I'm a great tennis player. You're going to have to like work your ass off to beat, right? And
Can I just make the best out of this lesser to like, you know, once I'm done, I'm like, I gave it all in a way. So that to me, that's my motivator, but we're obviously in different times of your life, you're going to have different ways to get motivated.
Nick (50:01)
And
you're talking about motivation there. And I felt like for lot of this podcast, we've been talking about a lot of the hard bits. But there's a reason why there are players like yourself keep going and keep playing these tournaments every day. And you talked a little bit about what motivates you and it's just, you want to get respect, you want to be good at this, which is coming out of your aunt. What is it about the experience that makes it worth it that you enjoy?
Karue (50:29)
I think because we start so young, we are so locked in into this routine that we have. The practice, the playing the matches and all that stuff. Especially just sort of like the routine outside of the tournaments.
having to show up every day to play, train, and it gives us like this structure that like I've been having a hard time without it for the last three weeks. I'm like, I'm just on my computer all day, kind of been trying to do some other stuff, and now I'm teaching a little bit to get out of the house. And in sports, especially in sports that involve like a swinger playing with a ball, I think you're obsessed with that moment that you think you're, like I think we're all chasing a moment that is like, figured it out.
I figured it out. Like, this is it. Like, I'm good. I figured it out. But that moment never came. It's fleeting. It comes and goes. But we're addicted to that. We're addicted to that, you know, trying to play at the best level we can. And so, you know, at the end of the day, know, everyone's a competitor. I'm a fairly chill guy, but like, you know, once we're on the court, like, you know, we're competing. And so...
I mean, some of these guys are hardcore competitors. It's not necessarily about beating you, but it's proving to themselves that they can do it. I think we're all in this search to prove to ourselves that we can play better than we're playing at this moment. And we're just addicted to that. There's an addiction to this whole thing, that we've been doing it for so long. And it's not a bad thing. It's not a...
I think he gives us a lot of structure. think he teaches a lot about like, teaches us about life because that's 10, you know, I feel like any sport is just like life. It would be boring if we're just always winning, right? Like even Rafa, Roger, those guys, they had those downs and we're like, Ooh, are they ever going to come back? And they made it back. And you're like, Whoa. And so that's just kind of, we're all sort of doing the same thing as those top guys are doing, but in our own level and our own like, wow, I just beat a guy who's top a hundred for the first time. just like, get this like little,
I'll tell you this, when you play pros, like 90 % of the time, it's just 90 % of the weeks are just disappointments. You know, even if you have a great week, but then you lose 7-6 in the third in the semis and you're like, ⁓ you're disappointed. Like you're always a loser, technically. Only one guy wins it. But in those moments that you do do something great for you, you know, I got my first like challenger semi-final last year and I was like, whoa, like I'm in my first semi-final was like ever. I was in Bogota actually and... ⁓
And you know, that it's a little bit addicting and it's part of the whole journey. And that's why I think a lot of players have a hard time getting away from the sport afterwards, right? Like everyone kind of comes back for coaching and things like that. not many players do like the Ash Bardy thing and just like, I want everything I needed. I'm out. Like, I'll see you guys on the next one. Which I respect. I respect. I would have done that too. But yeah, it's a...
It's sports, think it's not just tennis, think it's all sports or like that.
Anastasia (53:38)
Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, we have such limited time with you. This was great. Nick, do you have any other questions before I wrap up?
Nick (53:47)
I think the last question I want to throw out there is one that you've been asking players in Charleston, Anastasia, when you were there. And Grand Pass is a podcast aimed at newer tennis fans or more casual tennis fans. Karou, what would you say is the most important thing for you to realise if you're a new fan of the sport?
Karue (54:10)
We didn't realize if you're a new fan of the sport is that I think to me, I, I tennis, think has always had this, this narrative of like, it's a, you know, it's a gentleman's sport, gentle woman's sport. and, and there's like a nostalgia play into tennis, like the aesthetic of like back in the day and whatnot. But I think what, to me, what people need to realize and it's something that Andres said, I think in an interview once something Agassi and he's
like tennis is sort of the closest you can have of a combat sport without two people punching each other in the face. You're in a cage, you feel the weight of the ball, you feel what the other person is trying to do to you and you're trying to do the same to them. And so as a fan, as you watch it,
You can watch two guys 400 to girls 400 in the world to girls 200 in the world 175 doesn't matter. You're always going to get that and there's so much like drama into that that if you really pay attention to a match, yeah, it can matches can be a little bit boring here and there but people are just like putting themselves through such a like a weird thing. There's no shot clock. It's just like you have to finish it and and that's sort of the appeal to me. It's it's mano a mano. ⁓
like almost combat and ⁓ as a viewer, as a casual viewer, like you can watch, you know, your local men's open and the US Open and you're going to have some good stuff in there. So I'd say, you know, if there's local tournaments to watch lower level
tournaments like I'm going to Ohio this week up here in California for the men's open just to can play it I've won a couple times and I just just want to be there and just like kind of watch and you see the people in the stands like are just people top hundred I'm like they're not even like ranked in the ATP and so like get more get more out there to watch some like live tennis then you understand that a little bit more the emotions and all that stuff and I don't like that tennis is always like in this like country club like who like whatever like to me that
SBS is not really the reality when you are actually in the thick of it. So if you enjoy that, go watch it. It's really fun.
Anastasia (56:23)
Yeah, I love that. That's like the perfect, perfect way to end. it's exactly what we try and get people to do on Groundpass. So, Kuru, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for joining us on Groundpass. And for everyone listening, know, do the thing, like, subscribe, rate. I'm going to get something. ⁓
Karue (56:46)
I have a video going live literally in a minute, which is kind of funny. So it's like one of those you've got to get the engagement. But again, it's one of those you just kind of have to keep making good content. You guys are clearly making good content, so I'm sure good things are going to happen.
Anastasia (57:01)
Awesome. Well, thank you. Thank you very much.
Karue (57:04)
Thanks for having me.
